An Interview with Jacques Bezuidenhout

Continuing with our Bar Ambassador interview series with a conversation between Krowne sales manager Lindsay Komsa and Krowne Bar Ambassador Jacques Bezuidenhout. Currently, Jacques works with Liquid Productions on barded event production around the country as well as spending time on his Spirit & Cocktail consulting company. Prior to this Jacques was the Bar, Cocktail & Spirit Specialist for Kimpton Hotels & Restaurants’ overseeing the company’s spirits menus as well as consulting on bar concepts. Please enjoy Krowne’s conversation with Jacques!

*Please note this conversation was recorded in October 2021

Lindsay Komsa 0:00 

Alright, so I guess we'll just get started. Thank you for joining and being a part of this.

So, we'll just started off with a little bit (about) your background. How did you end up working in the hospitality industry? Was this something you always wanted to do?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 00:18

No, not at all. I think like, a lot of us (who) find a path in the hospitality industry (it’s) kind of like a sidestep. When you're not really sure what to do next. (You’re) getting out of school, getting restaurant work. When I started traveling and getting bar work (I) just found that it was a fun job that I could do pretty much anywhere in the world and (keep) me entertained and interested in learning and everything else.

Then you reach a certain point where you're like, “Oh, this is really good. I really love what I do.” This (job) is something that with extra learning and taking on those challenges, you can kind of cut out a career path for yourself. So, a lot of it (is) by chance, and then by choice afterwards.

 

Lindsay Komsa 1:11

Awesome. So just kind of switching gears to a little bit more specifics about bartending, in terms of drinks. What is your favorite drink to make? And why is it your favorite drink to make?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 1:23

I'm very classic cocktail person. So, Martinis, Manhattans, Negroni’s and all that. I'd say the favorite…my favorite drink that I like to dig into is the Martini, just because it's such a simple drink. It’s kind of (the) sum of all its parts. Taking it from where it's a good drink, (and) elevating it to where it's a great drink.

I think (it’s) one of those cocktails that not only brings in the liquid content, but all the other senses. The feel of the glass, the mood of the room, the music that's playing and everything like that.

 

Lindsay Komsa 1:58

Have you mostly worked in like a Martini craft cocktail type of environment? Or have you kind of been all over?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 2:05

Kind of all over. I mean, when I first moved to the States, I worked in an Irish pub for six years. So (I) didn't make a lot of cocktails at all except for a lot of bad margaritas. Then open(ed) a Mexican bar and restaurant and then got into Kimpton (hotels) where we had all sorts of different bars. So (I’ve) kind of gone all over the place. I think along the way, I've always just liked the martini and how (it) made me feel. It's one of those drinks that are just iconic.

 

Lindsay Komsa 2:38

Absolutely. So what do you feel is your biggest accomplishment?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 2:43

Just being able to kind of keep on evolving in this industry? Really, I mean, there's not once ago, and I'd say, Well, you know, working with Kimpton was definitely one of the biggest as far as kind of growth accomplishments, just tackling some, you know, we're working on design of bars and bars that were coming in a year or two, or fixing current bars and training bartenders and selecting the back bars and all the equipment and everything else.

So that was definitely a big job and something with over the course of eight years definitely learned a lot.

 

Lindsay Komsa 3:13

So you feel kind of your transition from a bartender to getting a little bit more involved in the design side has been your biggest okay.

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 3:22

Yeah. Like all aspects of, you know, kind of what makes us bar industry tick, if it's the people that sell us booze to making glassware to the equipment that you guys make is knowing that there's so much more than just one person or one cocktail or whatever. It's such a big community.

 

Lindsay Komsa 3:42

I actually agree. When I first got into this industry, same exact thing. I thought you just go to a restaurant or you go to a bar and you order a beer, but there's a lot that goes into it. And once you start to kind of dig into that it's really interesting. Yeah. So now you mentioned margaritas, but what is your most challenging drink to make? Probably not challenging, but

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 4:02

you know, I thought about that one for a little bit. And it wasn't really one cut. I mean, that awesome complex cocktails. But I think what what's more interesting to me, it's it's more the, the drink that you're not prepared or ready to make.

And that's just something that kind of relates to what you guys are doing in terms of just relates to like how we have, we're slowly evolving in this bar community where the equipment really matters. And when you're not prepared to make something as simple as a Mohito or a cosmopolitan or Martini.

It really becomes a difficult drink to make because you're looking for the components you're having to pigment you're having to find something you're having to do something else. And you're taking what could be a very quick process and putting a lot of time and effort into it.

So it's not really you know, you can do a layered cocktail or whatever it was something very complex or Ramanujan furs, but if you're not prepared and your station and your meals and classes and reading then any easy drink It becomes a difficult task.

 

Lindsay Komsa 5:02

Absolutely. Thinking if you have to go into a different room, or you have to take, you know, a bunch of steps to get somewhere, lots of things that we think about at Krowne and trying to make an efficient layout that gives you everything that you're going to need within reach for any type of drink. And I'm sure there's ones that are ordered that just throw that all out the window.

So when and where did you make your first drink? I know, you mentioned the Irish Pub. So that's probably

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 5:28

, you know, I started working in a restaurant in South Africa. And we kind of as servers would do everything we’d make drinks would obviously run the food, take the orders for the wine. So it was probably there.

But I don't think it was any kind of a complex drink at all, it was probably, you know, gin and tonic, so it can vary in orange or something like that. But I'd say probably in London was the first time I started mixing drinks, taking an interest in cocktails, learning how to make a martini properly, learning from other bartenders and all that.

 

Lindsay Komsa 5:58

awesome Is there any part of the bar that you consider a must have? And I don't know if that's going to be working for every single application? You know, necessarily,

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 6:07

 as far as equipment goes, right?

 

Lindsay Komsa 6:11

As far as equipment goes, Yes,

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 6:20

I mean, I always think a really good sink in the proper way it's meant to be just because you just can't do your job, I see so many bars setups where it's like, the sink is away from the well, it's a tiny little sink.

And it's like the thing you're using so often in terms of recycling your equipment, and washing your hands and being part of you making drinks successfully. Just a really good proper, you can you can kind of kind of get away with those smaller Well, or, well, that's not deep enough, or stuff like that, but preppy sink, just to life. Man

 

Lindsay Komsa 6:43

, I also think, at least just from my perspective, in the equipment world, people kind of think of the sink as an afterthought. It's not necessarily thought of, you know, you always are like, I need ice, I need liquor, I need glass, you know, storage, but they do need to consider that sink placement, which is, which is a really good thing to know, I never thought about it that way.

This next one kind of falls into what we were just talking about with the challenging drink. But this is more what what is the kind of nightmare or the most challenging bar situation that you ever run into, or that you see a lot of people run into.

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 7:18

For me the biggest nightmare, I mean, there's so many it's, there's so many poorly designed bars, it's not even funny. They're all kind of every time I walk behind one, I'm just like shaking my head, like, like, how did you manage to do this, you know, but for me personally as a working bar, you know, when I was a working bartender, to me, it's like equipment behind as far as doing an eight hour shift was like you're constantly bending down and bumping into things.

And like that was my biggest nightmare as far as equipment and obviously just misplaced equipment. You know, there's so many things that people do wrong from the sink to the height to all the stuff that kind of get in your way, you know, that people just don't think about until they're open and they're like, oh, no, no, we got to do this again.

 

Lindsay Komsa 8:02

Do you have any specific examples of a nightmare bar situation? I guess were specific equipment layout that was horrible.

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 8:10

All of my like the one that's annoys me is like the crappy old three sink that you find behind the bar with the speed rail. Another one that also like I remember, in San Francisco, by the way I worked at Eastside was, well was just low enough to where the speed rail was low enough where you the whole night you just raised your knees on middle and you're like, who placed this thing here?

Like it could barely walk at the end of the night with the height of you know, the stick banging against my knees all night? Yeah, it's just and then also the your wells here, and then the sinks over there. So it's like, how am I going to clean my equipment and some people are using the soda guns to like wash out their bar tools, and it's just bad situations.

 

Lindsay Komsa 8:55

So I know you mentioned the three compartment sink, where do you think that they should put their warewashing station as opposed to putting it in front of the bartender? Is there a better spot for that?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 9:04

Well, the the three compartment sink I just think is an old school thing that health departments have relied on and some like cool, we're done with it. I mean, if you have a good glass washer behind the bar, I don't see the need for a three compartment sink anymore.

I mean, because space is so limited nowadays where it really benefits you having potentially a third well behind that space when you can only fit two because the three compartment sink is there and then you have your Glasswasher it's like a lot of space devoted to tension that as well and that work so there was something that I wish they would do away with it would be that just because it picks up like I understand why it's there it takes up a lot of space and if you choose Glasswasher then oh I get it you know then figure out a place where you can do your glasswork, but

 

Lindsay Komsa 9:51

I completely agree. I only times I really see it be a struggle as if it's required by code and they're trying they need to fit it in somewhere.

 

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 9:58

Exactly. I'll turn that into a well with a speed rail for busy nights. But it's just not ideal. It's kind of a big waste of space, I think.

 

Lindsay Komsa 10:07

absolutely So kind of going off of that what is considered, or what has been your favorite bar layout that you've seen or that you've worked on,

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout10:15

I was really happy with the one that we did a forgery, just a was just a really nice tight layout with equipment. Yeah, various bars that I see like pch, here in San Francisco, they have just a nice clean layout.

And I think it's just working bartenders that really taking their equipment seriously and kind of figuring

out what needs are going to work for their type of cocktail bar or bar situation. Because I don't think every bar I don't think is a cookie cutter solution, you got to figure out what you're going to serve a lot of and then work around the equipment from there.

So just, I think the ones that like forgery and pch back in the day where you can see somebody got back there, and I was like, here's the proper size. Well, we need here's the amount of sinks we need. Here is where this goes, this is where the glass freezer goes. That kind of stuff.

 

Lindsay Komsa 11:00

It's a little more thought out and just kind of be pieced together.

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 11:04

 

Yeah. And that might not work for somebody down the road who's doing beers and shots. But it works out for that situation, you know. So it's understanding that and thinking through that,

 

Lindsay Komsa 11:14

exactly tailoring the bar to the specific needs of that restaurant.

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 11:18

Exactly

 

Lindsay Komsa 11:19

Exactly. So when designing a bar, and I know we've already kind of touched on this a little bit, what things do you consider are kind of need to know,

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout 11:25

what what do you mean, in terms of need to know like, what

 

Lindsay Komsa 11:39

kind of questions are you asking, I guess, the client? And what information are you needing from them to actually design it to be efficient? Like you're mentioning?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  11:39 

Yeah, I mean, the couple of questions I'll ask off the bat, you know, okay, what, what kind of bar program are you going to have? What drinks are you going to be making? So they can get understanding for kind of stylistically what they're going to be? Are you going to be a tiki bar, you're going to be a beer bar, you know, do nothing about margaritas and frozen margaritas or whatever that may be. So getting a sense for what is going to move across that bar of value. And then looking at the size, you know, how many people are going to be in there I ask that question all the time, like, right how many guests you expect the length of the bar. So obviously, you have an understanding of what what you can fit under there. But those are kind of the key takeaways really to get least get that starting point of Alright, this is what we're going to make a lot of this is for how many people we're going to make these drinks or serve these drinks. And then you start designing from there.

 

Lindsay Komsa  12:28 

I'm not sure if this even has any type of influence on it. But I'm thinking of, you know, geography. If you were designing a bar in Texas, and you're designing a bar in California, I'm sure you've got a different mindset on on, you know, the clients that are coming in, and what type of equipments needed is Do you think it's more? What's going to be served? And what type of bar it is? Or do you think geography really plays a big role into how you actually design the bar?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  12:54 

Yeah, I think it's more what you're going to serve? And it's a good question, because geography does come into play, obviously, because you think you're mostly looking at the climate. So you know, there's going to be and, and probably a lot of the drinking styles. So if it's like, your average Texas cocktail bar, you also do not have that, alright, they still drink a lot of bottled beer, okay, so you have to make allowances for that with San Francisco, maybe it'll be a little bit more wine driven. So there are some nuances that you got to play around with. And the definitely, you should understand that city, where it is competitive bars that are around them. And you know, have a really good understanding of what you want to serve and who you want to be.

 

Lindsay Komsa  13:34 

Okay, so kind of like doing some research into the neighboring bars and seeing what they want to mirror and what they want to stick away from.

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  13:42 

Yeah, I mean, any good bar or restaurant, they're gonna spend at least know who their competitors are, who their neighbors are, what's happening in the, you know, if you don't do that research beforehand, then you're like, cool. I'm gonna open a Mexican restaurant here. And then, you know, 10 days later, there are 10 other Mexican restaurants here. Maybe I should have looked at this a little bit.

 

Lindsay Komsa  14:05 

Absolutely. Absolutely. That makes sense. So what made you want to partner with Krowne,

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  14:11 

just like you guys are just constantly wanting to evolve and progress and make things better behind the bar, you know, for so long? We're looking at equipment companies are the few that are out there. And with Kimpton, especially back in the day, and it's like, well, these the equipment's done, to do something different or new is really difficult. And it's, there's always the hurdles thrown at you, not the solutions. I think, yep. What I like about you guys, is that you guys are solution orientated like, oh, cool, that's an issue. See if we can fix that issue. You know, it's constantly looking forward moving. What do we constantly improve on the equipment that we're making, you know, which I think has been done for so long in in kitchen, kitchen equipment is just constantly getting better and constantly improving? So to see that happening on the bar side, I mean with what you guys are doing, I think is very cool and inspirational.

 

Lindsay Komsa  15:07 

Awesome. Thank you for that. So of the projects you've done so far with Krowne, are there any that have been your favorite and why?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  15:16 

Well,we're still kind of working if you there's one in San Antonio, that we're kind of, well, I just like how organized they have been. I think what I like about all of them so far is how easy is been to find solutions for the projects, in terms of equipment that, you know, something that can be a challenging thing with piecing together equipment doesn't seem as challenging working with you guys. So that seems like a easier or less complex process now, which I like,

 

Lindsay Komsa  15:45 

do you think some of our tools that we have available, such as bar Flex 3d has kind of helped with that?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  15:51 

Yeah, I mean, it was just talking about that yesterday, when you know, like, for instance, a lot of the the projects that we worked on, or try to go visit in San Francisco, I remember, like, you go into the space, and then you got your measuring tape, and a bunch of tape, and you're like tape off your bar section, and then tape where you think a sinks gonna go, and your wells gonna go. And then you kind of stand there looking at this like one the experience. And maybe if we did take this and move that there. And now with a 3d experience, it's just a, it's like a whole nother world, it's like, you're actually being able to move pieces of equipment around and really get a feel for what that bar is really going to feel and look like and then easily move a piece of equipment around. So it's yeah, it's a billion times better than what we used to do, which is really cool.

 

Lindsay Komsa  16:38 

We've come a long way from , sketches on napkins. Right?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  16:43 

Exactly.

 

Lindsay Komsa  16:45 

And you've used bar Flex 3d, frequently.

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  16:48 

I mean, not extensively, but I've used it. And it's definitely so interpretive that it's super simple to kind of work through it. And I think as as more places start opening, and we have the opportunity to work on a lot more projects, that's going to be a lot of fun.

 

Lindsay Komsa  17:04 

Do you think like using bar Flex 3d to actually design the bar has changed the way that you think about the design or influenced it in a way

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  17:12 

made it easier? I mean, definitely, it's still a pretty like cut, not a cut and dry process. But it is like all these essential three, four pieces of equipment. So it's if it's making my life easier to envision that pre construction, where it's like you're not walking in days later, when they've done the plumbing, and (thinks) that’s stupid, you know, where the 3d gives you that opportunity to not make those mistakes, which I think is very important. Because we've all been there, you're like, I thought that's a sink would work Really well here until you're standing in front of them, you're like, No. So that kind of actual 3d sense, makes that decision a lot clearer. I think.

 

Lindsay Komsa  17:56 

I always say that it's a very creative industry, and the installers will make it work. But why do they have to, you know, when you can avoid it in the beginning? So going back to kind of drinks? Are there any emerging drink trends that you've seen come about this year that you've been excited about?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  18:14 

You know, what, like, yearly trends, I don't really touch too much. Because it's like, always somebody is like, it's no longer the the big ice cube now it's the tall Ice Cube, or it's, you know, that's like what the reality of what you see out there, I think the ongoing trend that I really like seeing kind of evolve over the last couple of years. And now kind of you see a lot more bartenders talking about this idea of the Sustainable bar. Kind of now, you know, I haven't got there yet, but like looking at your bar equipment and how, you know, what is trash look like? What does it mean for us to reuse all these lime and lemon husks and recycle and where this goes and stuff that you know, the bar is a big waste area of stuff. So how do we look at making our bars more sustainable, or sustainable-friendly? You know, what does that look like equipment wise, which I don't think we've all really spent enough time be looking at that. But I think that trend is going to continue, I think more and more bar people are looking at, alright, how do we reduce waste behind our bar? And if there's equipment that can help do that, or now we need the recycling drawer or another space for another Tallboy for compostable stuff. So it's like and I think that's for all for good reason. So I seen that trend not really going away anytime soon. I guess maybe it's more like a movement, but a lot more people are looking at that,

 

Lindsay Komsa  19:42 

which I think is super important. Even like a compost station behind the bar. And then you mentioned the line wedges, you know,

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  19:50 

yeah, and you know, it's like, like, we'll use the Sunkist juicers and there's a station in the back where you do it on your bar and it's like now instead of just having one trash Can where everything goes now, maybe there's a space with just all your limes and lemons and Orange has go in there. And then later on, you figure out what you're gonna do with them or to the proper, you know, compostable space or whatever it may be. But so I think slowly looking at how bars can be transformed to not only put out drinks quickly, but also the back end of it, as well.

 

Lindsay Komsa  20:26 

You already see it with straws. Paper are not even available all the time, too. Okay. Cool. And are you seeing any trends emerging for 2022? Kind of new ones on the horizon? I know, this is still, like you mentioned evolving. So this might be one for 2022 as well, both with drinks and then also with the design side. And the trends in 2022.

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  20:51 

I mean, definitely the the whole sustainable thing. I think there's always going to be kind of the tweaking of your bar equipment. And I think I see a lot more people obviously ice has been a big thing for the last few years. But I I see that continuing in the how are people going to even offer more ice like is there going to be that space where you have a 10 pound block and you're back bar your front bar has drainage and you can chip away at you know, how they're going to be more like freezer drawers space, where you can keep ice throughout the night instead of it just sitting in your well, kind of melting away? So yeah, people you know, guests love the big cubes, they love all the various ice, a lot of bar programs sell themselves on it. So how do we look at storing that ice a little bit differently behind our bars, you know, now, compared to five years ago, it's a lot more freezer space behind the bar for your frozen glassware. And I know you guys have the chiller. So you're trying to eliminate that space, which is great. But now how do we you know, not just have chilled garnish faces? But how do we now have drawers for different ice that can be frozen? You know?

 

Lindsay Komsa  21:57 

I this is just more of like a personal curiosity. Question. Is the different ice cubes purely aesthetic? Or does it have anything to do with the taste profile of the drinks?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  22:06 

Yeah, no, I think it's, it's both they definitely looks and feels great, especially the big cube, but that kind of condense two by two piece of ice or the cold draft ice. So the one by one cubes, they just tend to melt and dilute slower into your drink. So if you're pouring in old fashioned, big cube, that's gonna take a little bit longer for that whole thing to water down compared to bad ice, you know? So yeah. But on both sides, for sure.

 

Lindsay Komsa  22:34 

Okay, I know you kind of already touched on a bit early any drink trends? Because I know at the this summer, I saw a lot of like, spiked iced tea. I know how it's like always evolving into a new trend. Are there any specific drink trends coming through 2022 or even the past year that you've seen?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  22:51 

I mean, I see a lot more places doing highballs. So I feel like you know, we were you know, don't get me wrong, the the old fashion is still kind of leading the way in the cutter world. Now, how many people make those every day, but I'm starting to see a lot more kind of lengthier drink. So I'm also not, you know, gin and tonic was part of that process. Now the Japanese Highball is part of that. And now you're just starting to see on menus, a lot more kind of lengthy drinks with soda, or some kind of flavored soda or whatever that may be. So I see that kind of tall, refreshing aspect. And also, you know, you don't feel as boozed up after a couple of those because, you know, an ounce and a half of Japanese whiskey with six ounces of soda water, you know, it's refreshing and you can have a couple of them. So I'd see that happening. I think the the non alcoholic, low ABV thing is going to continue as well. Because seeing a lot more of those menus, I think that shows where people want to be and have that option, at least not just have it be an afterthought. So I think there's just a you know, new space for like, how do we look at carbonation behind the bar, you know, the like the Toki machines? Is there soda water that we can offer that is not in a bottle that we sell that is high quality, like in that Toki machine? What does that look like? You know? All those things but yeah, those are some of the trends I'm seeing.

 

Lindsay Komsa  24:09 

Have you ever seen like a full bar build out that's non alcoholic? Because I know that that non alcoholic trend is happening?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  24:17 

I read about a bar in New York, I think that was was it New York or LA? I can't remember but it was it was a bar that they're gearing up to be just a fully non alcoholic bar. So it's got all you know the sitting in the room and feeling good. So it gives people an opportunity to go there and hang out and then I assume I haven't seen behind the bar, but I assume it's set up to make drinks and obviously so some refrigerator in a beds and all that kind of stuff. So I maybe you probably need less space. I don't know because you don't have that much to work with. But yeah, I don't know if that's going to be like a big thing moving forward. I see people thinking about that.

 

Lindsay Komsa  24:59 

So So, which drink do you think matches your personality? And I know you already mentioned a couple drinks that you'd like to make

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  25:07 

I don’t know, I'd like to think the Nagroni I'm not sure why I like the good apertivo Three easy flavors that you know, just good. And fun, an easy and complex all at the same time.

 

Lindsay Komsa  25:20 

I like it. I like it. I would, I would agree. I think that's great. And if you could only make one drink for the rest of your life, which drink would you choose and why?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  25:29 

I would go back to the Martini. Because I have a whole world of different gins and Vermouths that I could work with a twist to olives or garnishes. And I just think it's one of those those drinks that just keep on giving no matter how often you have a because you get tired of any drink for the rest of your life. But I think I could do that one, probably

 

Lindsay Komsa  25:50 

a lot of combinations of flavor. And you can keep

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  25:54 

different vermouths different gins, or at least I can keep myself busy with those scenarios.

 

Lindsay Komsa  26:02 

exactly do drink trends kind of come back in style, similar to fashion?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  26:06 

Yeah, I think so. Like, I think the highball, you know, was prevalent in the late 70s, early 80s, when people didn't want to drink as heavy as they were, you know, post prohibition days. We've seen that coming back. We're ever seen, like seeing the tiki craze come back, which you know, was big in the 50s and 60s. So yeah, I think some part of that, you know, becomes retro cool again, and then you see people trying to recreate some of the drinks we all laugh that like the server and acid or whatever it may be, but do it in a better way. You know? So I think you see some aspects of that kind of rolling around. I don't know with today's information age how long they actually stick around for unless it's a entire category like Tiki where yeah, that's not going any anywhere anytime soon.

 

Lindsay Komsa  26:53 

Mm hmm. That was everything I had. Did you have anything else that you want to add?

 

Jacques Bezuidenhout  26:59 

No, that's cool. I just it's been really fun working with you guys and excited to see what what else you'd come up with and do. can't wait to work more on some other projects. 

 

Lindsay Komsa  27:09 

Me as well. I always love jumping on the calls with you guys because you always have something that I've never thought about and I use it then you know in my personal sales meetings. Thanks again for joining us Jacques. You can find out more about Jacques on Instagram by going to love tequila and check out Krowne at Krowne metal on all social media.